Saturday, August 25, 2007

To Date, Or To "Date"?

In the normal Family vernacular, to "have a date" with someone literally means sex. It means you are going to go to their room wearing something silky and easy to take off, slip under their covers whispering sexy nothings into their ears, and start kissing their neck as your fingers find their way under their shirt.
Although it is fun most of the time, and sure gets down to the point fast, this one bugs me a little bit. In society at large, "having a date" with someone, (or "dating" someone), means that you are doing special things together with them. You might start off with a romantic meal or a sunset in a park together. Sex may or may not happen (hopefully may), but it is not a given to start out with--you have to work for it--and not necessarily always the goal. It is the whole slow seduction process and the prolonged enjoyment of the other person, many times in a public setting, the tease, the game plan--the dressing (as in "salad dressing")--that builds up to the final prestige, that is missing.
"Let's have a date," in the Family, means, in general, "let's have sex." I wish we could make a conscious effort to change that, even just a little bit. Why not take someone out on a date TODAY! Go throw food at some pigeons, or go for a boat ride in a lake together. Go have a frappucino over heated discussion. Climb into her bed with no explanation, but a copy of "Entering Into Rest" under your arm--a Word date! Go out just the two of you and play romantic songs to each other under a birch tree. THEN kiss her! THEN take her home with you! Seduce her instead of just the given one-liner. Try it!

Love, Joe.

Since writing this, I have found good use for that line and the casual sex that suffixes it. It makes the whole asking process a lot easier. I have also noticed a prevalent flocking towards Borat's succinct colloquialism "sexy times," as a comfortable way to refer to the subject without embarrassing yourself.
The things we adopt to avoid just saying so.
Still, I think that if we became just a little more relaxed and familiar with just asking for exactly what we want, it might do us a lot of good. And who knows, maybe if we became a little more comfortable with bringing up sex in so many words when necessary... maybe we'd also be a little bit closer to throwing vernacular to the wind every once in a while--and asking her out for a real date.



At 9:39 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mate, you have thus spoken my mind, I couldn't agree with you more. I think the thing we need more of in our wonderful Family is gentlemen.
After all, they are ladies, and need to be treated as such, flowers, chocolates, special dinners, notes, etc, these things are needed, and they need to be given freely, with no strings attached, just cause it's our job, as men, to treat the ladies.
If we don't, who will? I kid you not, I enjoy sex as much as the next guy, and then some, but there is so much more to women than just someone to fuck.
The shame is that it's become an unusual thing to be a ladies man, a gentleman, that when one does go out of his way to be nice to women, they get looked down on, 'ulterior motives' they say, etc.
It should be the norm, opening the doors for the ladies, complimenting the ladies, helping with the dishes, carrying that heavy item, making coffee, giving a gift, a flower, etc. Where have the gents gone? I'm not even talking about seducing or romanticizing the women, I just want to see someone take care of them, as women. Sex will come later, but in the end they will remember you more for the kind deeds, then for the sex, and if you've filled their love cup during the day, they will more willingly fill your love cup up at night, trust me.
Why do girls go for system guys? because they have to be gentlemen to play the game, they know how to treat girls, cause if they didn't they wouldn't get past square one. I think sometimes family guys get lazy and forget how lucky they are that 'she' lives in their home or area, and 'she' has limited options, and they just might get lucky with her... Lets show our girls how much we appreciate them, how great they are, by treating them as they deserve to be treated. Amen?


At 3:06 am, Blogger Florence said...

Wow interesting.
There are soooo many little intricate aspects of the solution to that problem.
But it's a good start.
No one wants to write a tedious blog post nowadays.
To be continued?

At 8:14 am, Blogger Liz said...

I"m in wholehearted agreement.

At 9:26 am, Blogger Mythos said...

I have to agree completely, this is something that has been on my mind a lot, with the whole 'date' in family lingo meaning only one thing and how easy it is to get a girl in the family because of that.
I personally would love to be asked on a date, not the family type but where we go out somewhere, where sex isn't the end in mind, but fun, enjoyment of each others company and getting to know each other is the primary goal in mind...and perhaps later if it feels right, then you go on to other things.
But the whole 'do you want to have a date with me?' and then jumping into each others bed to get the 'deed' done is a little too fast and inconsiderate on the girls part, it kinda of makes us woman in the family feel a bit easy (to put it bluntly) and it makes it too easy on the man.
Men are supposed to pursue, and if we women, make it too easy on them, then they become lethargic, and forget what gifts women really are.
I think that may be the root of the problem with men in the family not being gentlemen, because they have had it easy all their lives, they've been taught that 'date' just means sex and usually girls will just submit because thats how they have been taught as well.
Well I don't agree with that, not at all, I think when you like someone, or what to go further with a person, you must put some effort into making that person feel special, and they will more than willingly give back to you in return when the time is right.

So guys, from a girls opinion, put a little more effort into trying to win a girl over, pursue her, make her feel special, do nice things for her, take her out somewhere 'just because' and she will love you for it.

(and on a side note, I've noticed that when people are agreeing with something or confessing their opinions on some topic that may induce arguments or controversy they always hide their name. Well I'm not going to do that, because this is a valid topic and I'm not afraid of what people might have to say to me.)
thus signed

At 10:43 am, Blogger mClay said...

yes very profound and most of us agree entierly, only please, leave Borat's sexy time out of it.the line got several people laid and even matched at the Brazil XD. I don't think the line is any less embarrassing then lets go have sex, it drives the point home and even softens the blow and is really just a cheery and very well recognized way to say it with the bonus of geting a giggle out of the second party. unless the second party is too "mature"??

At 4:42 pm, Blogger Jesse S. Pritchard said...

Just Love! You can't go wrong. ;)
I am learning that it is harder done then it is spoken. :(

At 6:20 pm, Anonymous Ruthie said...

In total agreement. It's been a discussion topic in my home for a while. I had a draft on the dating issue all ready to be edited and posted on my blog's dashboard, but you got to it before me. PTL.

At 8:03 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow, Jo, let's see if you live up to this! "A good leader is the one that shows the way".....can't remember who said that.

At 7:20 pm, Blogger Michelle said...

I remember this subject...a few years ago i was distressed and discussed it with my best friend. U also interviewed a few guys about it. The few I did said that they wouldn't take a girl out and spend money, transportation(in japan, this is atrociously high), time or whatever else was needed if they weren't sure that sex was guaranteed in the end...sad but true.
I myself find it kinda lame that ppl can get right down to it by that famous yet infamous line "Wanna date?"
On the other hand,I believe the girls themselves don't have to be so easy. That could contribute to the men's lazy mindset. I was whining to a friend about the date line and he said to me "well, you don't have to say "yes" right off" "Try something like 'maybe' or tease and be a little hard to get. Hmm...true.
It could also be that us girls feel slightly guilty if we say "no". Or because some opportunities to have dates are split second. Whatever the case may be, us girls can get a bit more creative ourselves. WE could just be the lazy ones. Why not REPLY with a creative idea...ey?

At 8:39 pm, Blogger Rosita said...

Perhaps, truth be told, "we girls" really do like sex... just as much as the boys - maybe more so. But we like to be treated as if we were doing a gentleman a favour, not just our duty.
It feels good to give back in return then to feel more like the beckoning slave, "I give you sex (as in a "date") out of duty to mankind, to "live the LOL'".
On the other hand, I can see how this term came into vogue. You see, at least for me, when I am with someone to whom I don't feel particularly attracted to, it'd be much easier for me to "go on a date" to share sexually with them, to fill their need, rather then to also be obliged to go on romantic walks, stargazing in the moonlight, and picking flowers at twilight.
I know this would actually be more sacrificial and harder on my pride, generate unity and all that to have to be with that person whom I have a difficult time with on a longer and extended period of time.
So, what's the solution? How do you think we should ask the person, with whom we don't want to be romantic with and do all the extra "date" stuff for a night of sexual passion?

At 11:38 pm, Anonymous Administrator said...

Sorry to disappoint all you gallant knights out there but I'm not against simply asking for sex, and then having sex. That was not the point of this article. Whenever this topic is broached there will always be a hundred strong bemoaning how the world has changed and how simple and easy women are these days.
For one, I'll have you know that they are not easy.
For two, why shouldn't they be? Do you think Eve played hard to get in the garden of Eden? Do you think that was the original plan of things, for her to always be running off, hiding behind trees? --They were created completely naked, for God's sake.
I for one think two things about sex:
1, that it is not a big deal. When it comes down to it, it's like eating or using the toilet, only a little more creative. It's just sex. Everyone does it, needs it, likes it--and should, for that matter. It is so normal and so everyday and so foundation, groundwork, run-of-the-mill essential that I am surprised it has kept its mystique for so long. So he likes her and she likes him. So they had sex. Big deal. --They'd better have. Who really cares? That's their own business. I'm happy for them.
2, I am a firm believer that sex should be gotten over with first thing. Quit worrying about it! You meet someone new, you think they're cute, so stop being all timid and "getting to know them" already. Sex IS getting to know them. One of the best ways, in fact, I might add. Get it out of the way so you can get on to the 98%. Honestly, if there's a balance in all this, I think it would be that you have sex with them first thing. THEN you take them out on real dates, after that whole up in the air thing is out of the way. That's when the real bonding can happen, once you've already been intimate with each other. If not, then there's always this mystery inbetween you, "Will she, will she not?", and you probably do have ulterior motives--both of you! That's the best way to be sure that they actually don't JUST wanna get into your pants--well, let them in there, THEN see what happens afterward! Why not?
My issue is mostly with the lingo, and with the deeper unbalance that it uncovers. You call sex "having a date." So what do you call "having a date"? --Nothing! Why isn't there a lingo for THAT? Think about it!
Is it because it rarely happens?
So sex is happening, and that's good! That's great! I don't want to at all undermine or take away from that. But then really taking her (or him) out on a real date is not happening, or rarely? And that's where my real issue is because there's so many fun things to do if we'd all just stop reading blogs and delete our Yahoo accounts.


"but there is so much more to women than just someone to (make love to)."
Yes, but they are also someone you can (make love to). Don't forget that part. It's very important.

"Sex will come later, but in the end they will remember you more for the kind deeds, then for the sex."
I kind of wouldn't mind being remembered for the sex....

Spike, you're right about this stuff and I agree with you. I'm just pointing out the OTHER side. I love you, man.


"To be continued?"
Insightful as always, my mentor and teacher. Yes, there is actually a second part to this.


"Put some effort into making that person feel special, and they will more than willingly give back to you in return when the time is right."
This I have to heartily second. It's all about making them feel special, because they usually are and have no idea. --'THIS woman who is right in front of me right now and who is glowing and doesn't even know it!' And hopefully the "right time" will be soon!


"Unless the second party is too "mature"??"
Marie, you are not allowed to push my own buttons in an argument, you sneak.
It's true, sometimes you have no interest in the party besides just to (have sex with) them--whether for their good or yours, usually both--, and it's important to make that distinction. I'm not addressing this idea across the board because it's true that sometimes you need to just do the person, and not do anything else with them. I am only addressing the imbalance in the cases where you DO need to do something more. There is a distinction.


"They wouldn't take a girl out and spend money, transportation(in japan, this is atrociously high), time or whatever else was needed if they weren't sure that sex was guaranteed in the end."
That's why you START with the sex! There's nothing wrong with wanting sex, even with really really really wanting sex. There IS however something wrong with 1: ONLY wanting sex, or 2: WITHHOLDING sex, just because the guy doesn't meet some classification of yours.

"On the other hand,I believe the girls themselves don't have to be so easy."
And why not? What is fundamentally, absolutely wrong with being easy? You are right in that it IS the lameness in the customary presentation that I am addressing. But in my opinion, the only degree of difficult that could ever be condoned is needing to ask the Lord or your spouse about it, and needing to talk about it with the person himself ahead of time. And since you should have already been prepared and asked the Lord and your spouse about it way ahead of time, you should now only need to talk with the actual person before you get down to pleasure!
Or what are you going to do to not be easy? "Teeheehee giggle giggle, maybe so, maybe not!" --Play chess over it? Answer a difficult riddle? Avoid being alone in a room with him, which might give him the opportunity to ask? Lie about your prior engagements? Or tell the truth that he is not attractive enough to overcome your dogma about his gender so you won't even ask the Lord about it? --Is that any more godly?


"Truth be told, "we girls" really do like sex... just as much as the boys - maybe more so. But we like to be treated as if we were doing a gentleman a favour, not just our duty."
And that IS the truth, tell it like it is sistah. I've never met a girl who had any LESS sex drive than me. That is, those women who I discovered anything about their sex drive. And you absolutely should be treated that way.

"When I am with someone to whom I don't feel particularly attracted to, it'd be much easier for me to "go on a date" to share sexually with them, to fill their need, rather then to also be obliged to go on romantic walks, stargazing in the moonlight, and picking flowers at twilight. I know this would actually be more sacrificial and harder on my pride."
And there's the last piece of the puzzle that I had overlooked. I feel you sistah. Sometimes sex is just the easy way out. Is it your easy way out?

Love, Joe.

At 3:55 am, Blogger Florence said...

I think quite a few girls in the Family are too easy because there is a stigma against being "hard". Girls who reserve sex for the guys who treat them well are usually looked upon as girls who are prudish or who have a problem with casual sex. The guys sometimes like to air an attitude that says "girls should have sex with anyone regardless of how much of a jerk they are". Girls often get pressured into believing this is true--that this is the humbling aspect of sex that we should all just accept if we want to get any sex at all.
With too great an emphasis on casual sex, the beauty of sex itself can be undermined. Sure, you can enjoy the beauty of sex sort of like you can enjoy a walk in the park. But there are so many aspects to it. You can enjoy a walk in the park more when you don't usually have the opportunity to go on one. You can enjoy it more when it means something to you. You can enjoy it more when you had to work hard to get it. Not that you should always have to work hard to get it, or that women should be making men beg their hearts out--but there is a certain God-given balance to be had (as in all things God-given).
I don't think the key is to be casual about sex (it could depend on your definition of the word, although we do have the dictionary to clear that up). I think the key is to respect and honor and love it more than the other things than we treat with an attitude that is "casual", but that we should be comfortable with it. Comfortable and honest about our need for it, our desire for it, when we want it and how we like it. That's definitely one of the sexiest things ever.

I think it's very interesting about the "easy way out" that you addressed in that last comment. It definitely is more difficult, but that doesn't mean it has less benefits. Part of living the LOL is doing the difficult things that bring you closer together, that humble you, that cause you to be open and honest and communicative, that cause you to wield the weapon of brotherhood. I think sex is the beginning of those blessings--like opening the door to them. It definitely shouldn't be the be all and end all. I've seen a lot of sex that ended up being a waste of time or even a detriment to unity when people didn't follow up properly, or weren't honest about it, or didn't do it with a spirit of humility, since those things are so difficult to do. Sex is definitely not the end, by any means.

At 10:03 am, Anonymous yours truly said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At 8:01 pm, Anonymous Jaydee said...

I Agree with this post... Good on ya brother...

out peace

At 12:36 am, Anonymous Dave said...

Well done Joe, I couldn't have said it better myself.

At 5:52 am, Anonymous Dave said...

Mike, are you Arthur's older brother?

At 5:04 am, Blogger whacky said...

Amen, amen, amen!

At 7:57 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said...

preeeety nice to wake up to reality!!!!!!!!!!!!

At 9:53 pm, Anonymous Gio said...

Would the phrase "going out" with someone also work as lingo for... well, going out? As of yet, this one doesn't mean just sex.

At 10:13 am, Blogger Sonny Moore said...

Oh, let me weigh in, here.

I`m just a silly sheep, who shouldn`t know anything about this subject. This is an ancient post, too, so I`m sure I`ll go unnoticed, largely. HOWEVER.

Why don`t we just think like cats? I find that people don`t have a continuum of touch. People are very touch-dogmatic. Being dogmatic is not... like a cat. My cats I had as a child were cuddly one minute, and hissing the next. They had a lot of in-between behavior, too. But they were always buddies.

Don`t forget, you can be pretty nasty, and still be affectionate. My friends throw me violently onto tatami mats regularly. My only concern is that they pay attention to me sufficiently. How many times have I stopped fingering a girl who says "No No No", only to have her later ask, "Why did you stop?" I`ve also thrown girls gently, who disdain me afterwards, but like it when the sensei cracks their joints.

Pleasure and pain are too subjective for dogmatic thinking. You need to know the other person.

I do not mean that sex should be violent. I mean that you should all spend some time pretending that the Lord has cursed you in such a way that just after you die, before you go to Heaven proper, you will have to experience yourself exactly as all the people you knew experienced you.

If you hit yourself hard on the cheek, how is that? Fine. Other people have very different points of view and feelings than you. Some people like a nasty sumi-otoshi throw, and disrespect you if you don`t thrash them. Some people like the gentle sumi-otoshi. They like it when you let them roll away softly on their own.

If you don`t know how to cuddle and be cute, you`re just as lost as if you don`t know how to thrash.

Can you tell the difference about who wants what, and when?

If you cannot, then you`re in for a jarring afterlife initiation.

If you can tell what people like, then you`ll get to Heaven so much sooner, since you`re creating your future experience right now in what they receive from you.

So, in summary, you should really work on becoming as Selfish as possible, since you`re only doing whatever you do to other people to yourself, eventually.

That`s a hideous curse, I know.

Good thing it`s only a Story...

Let`s hope nobody gets inspired by it, and makes a technology out of it.

That would suck/be awesome, depending on whether you are a compassionate and loving person or not.

Whoever bothered to read this far- there`s a lot more of where this madness came from. It`s in a Story, somewhere on the internet... You`ll probably see it, sooner or later...


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